We've been talking about how to feed joy and find peace. What better voice to add to our conversation than with The Rev. Wilma Jakobsen. Wilma is Chaplain at the famous Volmoed Retreat Centre in South Africa and was one of the first women to be ordained into pastoral ministry in South Africa - in her case into the Anglican Church by her mentor Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Pastor John invites her to share memories of her deep friendship and working with Desmond Tutu who literally has written the book on "The Book of Joy." Wilma has some pearls of advice on how each of us can build a house of joy. This episode coincides with the 11th Annual Desmond Tutu Peace Lecture which we hope you will watch https://events.tutu.org.za/